Caller Display on landline shows "INTERNATIONAL" number

judithfjudithf Posts: 4FreedomPop Newbie
I tried calling my landline from my FreedomPop phone, and the Caller Display on the landline identified my FreedomPop SIM as an international number (unknown number). This is potentially a problem because that type of number is most likely to be a junk phonecall, which people will not answer. Will the correct number be displayed if I put a UK number on my FreedomPop SIM (once we get number porting)? For some reason the correct number is displayed when I call my other mobile phone, but not on the landline.
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Comments

  • Davey (3rd)Davey (3rd) Posts: 132FreedomPop Newbie
    Just tried calling my landline, same result, strange because a google search shows that 07400 is a uk mobile code on the three network, like you say @judithf a problem
  • Martin BrooksMartin Brooks Posts: 1FreedomPop Newbie
    Yes this is a problem. My father has international calls blocked because of overseas **** callers. I can't contact him because of being identified as international!!!
  • Fabrizio MartellucciFabrizio Martellucci Posts: 657FreedomPop Newbie, UK Pro ✭✭✭✭
    I just rang my landline and the number showed up as a normal mobile phone. My landline is with sky. What is you landline providers BT, Virgin Media etc ?
    Billing cycle 7th
  • limeylimey Posts: 674FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    I saw a post on Digitalspy, that mentioned the caller ID from a mobile showing up as International on a landline - in that case, the mobile was on EE, but the apparent cause was that the mobile call was made over WiFi. May or may not be connected, but I thought it worth a mention.
  • Fabrizio MartellucciFabrizio Martellucci Posts: 657FreedomPop Newbie, UK Pro ✭✭✭✭
    That's why I was wondering if it's how the landline provider interprets a WiFi call
    Billing cycle 7th
  • Davey (3rd)Davey (3rd) Posts: 132FreedomPop Newbie
    just tried it again, shows international call on landline phone over wifi and mobile data connection, also tried my other sim (Vodaphone) shows international call too and no number, if I disable the Freedompop messaging app, then ring via the Vodaphone sims it shows the correct number normally. My landline is with BT.
  • 1stJohn Arkley1stJohn Arkley Posts: 392FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    They really need to have a uk specific app if that's the reason its happening.
    Billing cycle starts ~ 1st of month
  • limeylimey Posts: 674FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    I suspect that the issue is in the handoffs of the caller ID data between the various providers involved in routing the call, with the fact that the call is VOIP being another handoff to take place.

    @Davey (3rd) I wonder if a call made using Premium Voice (if you have it) might be worth a try? (The thinking being that doing so may skip the initial VOIP link in the chain.)

    Note: ainslie.org.uk/callerid/cli_faq.htm provides more info on Caller ID than you probably want to know, but section 6 on the UK gives some clues as to what goes on behind the scenes & section 12 has an interesting little nugget that might apply here.
  • Davey (3rd)Davey (3rd) Posts: 132FreedomPop Newbie
    @limey I don't have premium voice so can't try it at the moment, but I've seen a post on here somewhere from @beyondperukelvin refering to the difference in the ringing tone you hear when you dial out, I believe on premium voice the tone is the good old british ring,ring whereas through FP voip its series of longer beeps, if that makes sense, which confirms what I am hearing when dialing out. Does my local exchange detect that tone as being foreign and then shows on my phone as an international call? I don't pretend to understand how it works, and looking through the information in that link you posted, I'm too old to find out
  • David GriggsDavid Griggs Posts: 46FreedomPop Newbie
    I had a similar problems when calling a friend who refused to answer her phone.
  • drgeoffdrgeoff Posts: 175FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    Davey (3rd) wrote "Does my local exchange detect that tone as being foreign and then shows on my phone as an international call?"

    No, the ringing that is heard by a caller is not forwarded to the local exchange of the callee. In fact that ringing goes nowhere else other than to the caller.
  • Davey (3rd)Davey (3rd) Posts: 132FreedomPop Newbie
    drgeoff said:

    No, the ringing that is heard by a caller is not forwarded to the local exchange of the callee. In fact that ringing goes nowhere else other than to the caller.

    Ok, fair enough, but surely a signal of some kind is being sent to my landline phone to tell it to display "international" and something changes when I disable the FP app and it displays my number correctly.

    This is a deal breaker for me, because a lot people are immediately suspicious of an unexpected international call, and immediatley think "****" and won't pick up, me included.

  • limeylimey Posts: 674FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    @Davey (3rd) - my understanding is that the caller ID data is sent to the receiving station as a series of tones between rings. which neither party would normally hear. However, things get complicated by different equipment/standards/VOIP...

    I suspect that the display of International is a fallback where the caller ID data is received in an incompatible format.

    If there is a solution for this, I think it may need FP to be involved - if you haven't already, you could try the UK contact form. Plus a tap on @Jorge M.'s shoulder.







  • Davey (3rd)Davey (3rd) Posts: 132FreedomPop Newbie
    Thanks @limey I did as suggested and filled in the UK contact form, and got quite a fast response, however they asked what phone model I had, which I'd already put on the webform, and whether I had the sim in sim slot 1 or 2 then I noticed at the bottom of the message it said 'Solved' :/ so replied to the email anyway, will have to see what happens.
  • 1stJohn Arkley1stJohn Arkley Posts: 392FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    edited December 2015 #16
    I've noticed when I ring out most times I get a US ringtone but not every time, odd times a get a normal UK tone.
    Billing cycle starts ~ 1st of month
  • drgeoffdrgeoff Posts: 175FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    When the callee is on the end of a PSTN line, Caller ID is sent from the local exchange of the callee as analogue tones. The exact method varies. BT uses V.23 modem format and sent before the first ring. The USA uses Bell 202 tones sent between first and second ring.

    In the cases of mobile and VoIP the Caller ID is sent to the callee as a data signal.

    In all cases the Caller ID traverses the trunk network as a data signal, usually in a parallel signalling/supervisory channel.
  • drgeoffdrgeoff Posts: 175FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    limey wrote:
    "I suspect that the display of International is a fallback where the caller ID data is received in an incompatible format."
    You suspect wrongly.
  • SolomonSolomon Posts: 207FreedomPop Newbie
    Strangely, mine showed up as international when calling a land line and displayed the real number when calling a mobile.

    I suppose we'll have to wean older people out of the UKIP mentality of blocking international calls.
    In any case, blocking international numbers to avoid nuisance calls won't work for long - the spam callers will soon cotton on and set their ID setting to a UK number.
  • Davey (3rd)Davey (3rd) Posts: 132FreedomPop Newbie
    Not getting very far with my support ticket, they just suggested I reinstall the app and haven't responded to my last email, guess they're on their christmas break now for a few days.

    @drgeoff you seem to be knowledgable in this field, are you able to throw any light on what might be causing this issue, and maybe how to correct it??
  • limeylimey Posts: 674FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    drgeoff said:

    limey wrote:
    "I suspect that the display of International is a fallback where the caller ID data is received in an incompatible format."
    You suspect wrongly.

    @drgeoff - Since you express that with some certainty, perhaps you could enlighten us all on what the actual cause might be?

    From what's been presented here, some folks see International displayed, whilst others don't. So either some (but not all) calls have something in their caller ID data that causes this, or the caller ID data is being misinterpreted somewhere along the chain. Or it's something else, we've not yet considered.

    @Davey (3rd) - the re-install advice sounds rather like a standard auto-reply. You might need to poke support again to look at this further during the week.

    @Solomon - I think the problem (going by the 6th reply in this thread) is more that the actual calling number isn't displayed - only International - folks are much more likely to avoid answering calls where no number is shown.
  • judithfjudithf Posts: 4FreedomPop Newbie
    limey said:

    @Davey (3rd) - my understanding is that the caller ID data is sent to the receiving station as a series of tones between rings. which neither party would normally hear. However, things get complicated by different equipment/standards/VOIP...

    I suspect that the display of International is a fallback where the caller ID data is received in an incompatible format.

    If there is a solution for this, I think it may need FP to be involved - if you haven't already, you could try the UK contact form. Plus a tap on @Jorge M.'s shoulder.

    I submitted the contact form as suggested, had several emails back and forth, but no help at all. Just the standard troubleshooting advice for the phone, which is a waste of time when the problem lies in the network. A real person at the other end not an auto reply, but useless. And they have either given up replying or stopped for holidays. No response from @Jorge M. as yet.

    It would be interesting to know if premium voice makes a difference, but I don't have it, and even if you do have it you can't choose to use it because it only kicks in if you don't have a good data connection, so the knowledge would not help a lot.

    I think the problem may be specific to some landline providers:
    Fabyon said:

    I just rang my landline and the number showed up as a normal mobile phone. My landline is with sky.

    So Sky is OK (unless maybe @Fabyon was using premium voice?)
    There is a problem on my landline which is with Virgin Media, and @Davey (3rd) 's which is BT, we don't have information about any other providers.

    I think after the holidays I will ask Virgin Media if they can shed any light on the problem. And also Three since FreedomPop uses their network. Perhaps @Davey (3rd) could enquire of BT?
    But I think it will need someone with more influence than me to get FreedomPop to do anything :-(
  • Fabrizio MartellucciFabrizio Martellucci Posts: 657FreedomPop Newbie, UK Pro ✭✭✭✭
    I thought that their VoIP servers were outside the UK I joined the international package and called my sister in Canada, the quality was crystal clear even my sister was impressed.
    Billing cycle 7th
  • limeylimey Posts: 674FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    drgeoff said:

    And not all Service Providers have calls from outside the UK coming in on the same routes and equipment. Thus it is quite possible, for example, for calls from a Service Provider in the USA to come into the BT network with Caller ID yet calls from the same Service Provider to come to EE without Caller-ID. However EE would know that the call is from outside the UK and could thus insert 'International' as the Caller ID rather than insert nothing at all.

    In other words, International may be shown as a fallback when no valid caller ID is received. ;p
    (* There are a few VoIP provider's who do permit CID spoofing. I doubt that FP's underlying service permits that but certainly the SIP client (Messenger) has no visible support for that.)
    FP doesn't support spoofing - older versions of the FP app actually had a field to enter a user choice of caller ID name, but changing this had no effect.
    judithf said:

    I think the problem may be specific to some landline providers

    @judithf - worse than that, it may be specific to certain routing/certain equipment on those providers. The sample set here is too small to know with any certainty.

    If other folks run into the same issue, hopefully they'll comment here with the landline provider in question (and whether or not using Premium Voice made any difference).
  • drgeoffdrgeoff Posts: 175FreedomPop Newbie ✭✭✭
    limey said
    "FP doesn't support spoofing - older versions of the FP app actually had a field to enter a user choice of caller ID name, but changing this had no effect."

    Caller Name is a different kettle of fish from Caller ID (number). AFAIK Caller Name has never been offered in the UK. It is available from some service providers in the USA. However in the USA for calls from non-VoIP terminals, Caller Name is never sent from the terminal or the caller's service provider. It is optionally up to the callee's service provider to use the Caller ID (a number) to look up a database to retrieve a name to send to the callee. There is no single national database and the reliability of the lookup can be variable.

    Perhaps that field in older versions of the FP app was an attempt to permit end user populations of one or more such databases. That is just a guess - I have no evidence to support it.
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